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Pacquiao vs. Mayweather in doubt over drug test issues?
By FightFan News Wire (22-Dec-2009)

The mega-fight between Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao is now in jeopardy after Golden Boy Promotions, on behalf of Mayweather Promotions, learned today that Manny Pacquiao is refusing to comply with Olympic style drug testing as outlined and mandated by the United States Anti Doping Agency (USADA) and as requested by Mayweather’s management to ensure fair play and sportsmanship by both fighters.

Early today Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions, was contacted by Top Rank President Todd duBoef, who informed Schaefer that Pacquiao would not agree to have his blood taken within 30-days of the bout based on the fighter’s superstition of testing so close to a fight..

Schaefer commented, “Todd told me that Pacquiao has difficulty with taking blood and doesn’t want to do it so close to the fight. He, Pacquiao, would only agree to have blood drawn before the kick-off press conference and after the fight.” Olympic style drug testing involves random sampling of the athlete’s blood and urine prior to and after the fight. The USADA procedure includes both blood and urine sampling so that all banned substances, some of which do not show up in urine alone, are tested for thoroughly.

“It is unfortunate to hear this from Manny Pacquiao’s representatives, particularly since, as of today, both parties had worked out all other issues related to this fight,” said Schaefer. “Team Mayweather is certainly surprised that an elite athlete like Manny Pacquiao would refuse drug testing procedures which Floyd has already agreed to and have been agreed to by many other top athletes such as Lance Armstrong, and Olympians Michael Phelps, LeBron James and Kobe Bryant.”

Mayweather, who was informed of Pacquiao’s reluctance shortly after Schaefer received word of the impasse, feels Pacquiao has to explain himself immediately or be faced with accusations from the media and the public regarding his own status as a clean and drug free athlete.

“I understand Pacquiao not liking having his blood taken, because frankly I don’t know anyone who really does,” said Mayweather. “But in a fight of this magnitude, I think it is our responsibility to subject ourselves to sportsmanship at the highest level. I have already agreed to the testing and it is a shame that he is not willing to do the same. It leaves me with great doubt as to the level of fairness I would be facing in the ring that night. I hope that this is either some miscommunication or that Manny will change his mind and step up and allow these tests, which were good enough for all these other great athletes, to be performed by USADA.”

Leonard Ellerbe, CEO of Mayweather Promotions said, “We hope that Manny will do the right thing and agree to the testing as it is an egregious act to deny the testing and hence, deny the millions of fans the right to see this amazing fight. We just want to make sure there is a level playing field in a sport that is a man-to-man contest that relies on strength and ability. I still hope this decision is coming from someone in Pacquiao’s camp and not Manny himself as it would be a shame that an athlete of his stature and who represents his whole country would not be able to show the public or his fellow athletes that he agrees to the highest standards in sports competition.”

81 Responses to “Pacquiao vs. Mayweather in doubt over drug test issues?”

Disclaimer: FightFan.com will NOT be held responsible for ANY of the content appearing in the following discussion, but will do it's best ensure that the discussion stays relevant, beneficial, and acceptable to the readers of this site.

Ace Freeman Says:

I’m not sure how widely know this is, but I was at Manny Pacquiao’s first fight with Eric Morales (the one where he was cut and lost a decision)…

and I heard a few rumors that Manny had quite a bit of blood drawn 24 hours before the fight as a result of some errors on blood work for his medical testing.

If that’s true and he felt it effected his performance that night, it’s no surprise he doesn’t want it to be an issue again in the most important fight of his life.

I don’t like the sound of this.

I think a post fight test is good enough. Hopefully they get over this because it would be a shame for this fight to be derailed for such a minor detail.
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Anonymous Says:

to me…manny is bullshiting….have ur blood tested..do it for ur country
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

I don’t think that’s fair.

Floyd wants the fight in Nevada because he has the most respect for their commission.

Their commission has tested Manny in every fight he’s had there, and he’s been clean.

This fight will be no different. If he’s dirty, he’ll test dirty after the fight.

Taking blood before a prize fight weakens the fighter. Manny has every right to be upset at the request.

It doesn’t happen in any other mega fight, why should it happen in this one?

I get the concerns of the Mayweather camp, but those concerns are satisfied just the same if the test is done AFTER the fight.
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:28 pm
doksloan1911 Says:

Manny, something does not sound right in ure camp. If theres nothing to hide just do the test. Mayweather will win regardless.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

You’re missing the point doksloan. He has agreed to the test. He just doesn’t want to have blood drawn before the fight, and for good reason.

They’ve stated they will give blood right after the fight, and will provide a urine sample – at any time-.

That should be more than enough, and is more than any other fight in recent boxing history.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

I really don’t have a problem with the testing, especially if it is the standard for the “Olympic style testing” which was agreed to by both fighters.

For the Morales fight, blood was taken from Manny really close to fight time. It may (or may not) have had an impact on his performance, especially if it was within 24hrs to the fight.

They won’t be taking blood that close to the fight in this case, likely a couple of weeks before, and it only takes a day or two for the body to replenish the blood.

It won’t have an effect on his performance, anymore than it affects the performance of Olympic and other world class athletes that endure this type of testing before competition.

And it’s not like Manny is the only one being tested. Floyd will adhere to the same standard, so there is no competitive advantage to either fighter.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

“They won’t be taking blood that close to the fight in this case, likely a couple of weeks before,”

That’s not correct.

It’s surprise testing, and when Roach asked if they could guarantee there wouldn’t be blood drawn the day before the fight, they said they couldn’t promise that.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

I believe the reason that they do this testing before (and usually at random intervals) is that PEDs could potentially be taken during training but then stopped in time that they are mostly not traceable by the competition date, but the benefits are still present.

I remember reading about that in relation to the Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson. They said he was running 9.5’s in training camp, before they stopped the juice cycle.

Also, I have no reason to believe that either Manny or Floyd are on anything illegal, but if they are going to test for PED’s then they might as well do a thorough job.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

I have a hard time believing that they would test within even a couple of days of the fight. I think they don’t make a guarantee so that it is totally random. That’s the purpose, beceause if you know when they will test, you could potentially find a way to beat the test.

I wonder if there has ever been a precedent set of anyone having blood drawn within even 48 hrs of an event for testing purposes.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

This is Freddie’s quote from Maxboxing.com:

Pacquiao’s trainer, Freddie Roach says,”The thing is, I talked to the drug testing people today and I said,’Can you guarantee me that Manny wont have to give blood the day before the fight?’ They said no. I said,’Then we can’t do the test.’” He added later,”We go by the commission rules, the sanctioning body rules. Mayweather doesn’t make the rules, we don’t work for Mayweather.”

In regards to the extent of the testing, Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer said:

“Olympic style drug testing is not one blood test 30 days before the fight and one after the fight. It is random drug testing which would include somewhere between 3-5 blood tests and 8-12 urine tests taken during the period January 1 to March 15. Blood tests by the way are taken in a non-intrusive manner and are less than one tablespoon.”
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Cashflow Says:

Again, both camps are just putting more drama in this to sell the fight. Next month it will be drama between Roger and Freddie Roach! This fight is to big and important to boxing to let this slow it up. Relax people!
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

I agree with your sentiment Cashflow…

there will be a lot more bickering over details to come… the fight will be on again and off again a few more times, but at the end of the day I say it gets done.

There’s too much money on the table for too many people (including the ridiculous paydays for both fighters) for the fight not to come off.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Pugilist Says:

I have two words for you Shane Mosley. Mosley has never tested positive for PEDs. But, as the prosecution of Balco Laboratories showed. Shane Mosley was there personal steroid/HGH test tube baby. Mayweather has every right to ask for random drug testing, and it says volumes about his athletic integrity.

Also, Freddie Roach has his own nutritional supplement line “Fitting Fit”, which raises even more suspicions. Other noted folks with their own supplement line are admitted steroid user Bill Romanowski.

Bottom line, if an athlete knows they aren’t using PEDs, agreeing to random blood & urine testing shouldn’t even be an issue.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Jazz Says:

What will Mayweather demand next? That Pacquiao be tested for rabies?Demonic possesion?
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 am
JIMMAAA Says:

“Olympic style drug testing is not one blood test 30 days before the fight and one after the fight. It is random drug testing which would include somewhere between 3-5 blood tests and 8-12 urine tests taken during the period January 1 to March 15. Blood tests by the way are taken in a non-intrusive manner and are less than ONE TABLESPOON.”

SITED BY YOU YOURSELF ACE FREEMAN.. SO I GUESSED MANNY SHOULD BE FINE WITH IT UNLESS HE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE…
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:06 am
JIMMAAA Says:

IT’S NOT LIKE IT’S BENIFITING MAYWEATHER HE WOULD HAVE TO OBIDE BY THE PROCEDURE ASWELL. AND IF THERE IS NOTHING TO HIDE WUT THE CONFLICT…MOSLEY VS DE LA HOYA (HINT HINT) MOSLEY WAS DIRRRRRTTTTYYYY!!!! IN # 2 MATCH -I KNEW MANNY WAS TO GO TO BE TRUE!!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 am
Pugilist Says:

If Manny Pacquiao would lie to & cheat on his own wife. http://bit.ly/5sJhf4
Don’t think for one second he wouldn’t lie about using performance enhancing drugs.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am
JIMMAAA Says:

hey JAZZ…YOU MUST NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BEING AN HONEST ATHLETE….TELL ME WOULD YOU TAKE A FIGHT PUTTING YOUR WELLNESS ON THE LINE TO A fake fighter USING BANNED SUB. WITH UNLIMITED POWER TO KILL YOU.. NO YOU WOULDNT,… I THINK THESE TEST SHOULD BE MANDITORY FOR ALL FIGHTS AND ATHLETES IN GENERAL…..AND GETTING RID OF ALL FAKE ATHLETES!
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 am
JIMMAAA Says:

ACE FREEMAN- WUT IS THE POINT OF SURPRISE TESTING IF FREDDIE WANT BASICLY A SCHEDULE FOR THE TESTING… WHEN DID MONEY BECOME MORE IMPORTANT THEN THE FIGHTER IT’S SELF… SO YOU GUYS ARE TESTING MAYWEATHER INTERIGTY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.. IF THE SUPICION IS NOW OUT IT IS ONLY SMART TO AGREE TO THE TESTING…
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 am
JIMMAAA Says:

PUGILIST: THATS RIGHT BRO!!!!!!!!!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 am
Ace Freeman Says:

First of all, this is not standard testing for a boxing match. This is all being done at Mayweather’s request, which in and of itself is fine…

however, Roach is adamant about the fact Pacquiao is phobic of having blood drawn, and they don’t want it done in the days before the fight, fearing it will effect Manny going in to the fight.

They have agreed to the testing, have said they will provide urine samples at any time, and will give blood immediately after the fight.

As none of this is standard by the Nevada State athletic commission, they are well within their rights to stipulate that Manny not receive a needle in the days prior to the fight.

The fight is being negotiated right now, and their request is no more off base than the suggestion of the additional testing in the first place.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 am
Pugilist Says:

All the blood Morales and Marquez have drawn from Manny. And, somehow boxing fans are supposed to believe Pacquiao has a phobia of needles and blood. LOL

Easy solution. Just knock Manny out with some laughing gas & then take the blood samples. There is no excuse for him not to agree to random testing.

Like I said if Manny would lie to his wife & mother of his children. What makes you think him & Freddie Roach would not lie about performance enhancing drugs.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 am
Ace Freeman Says:

Manny has been tested in each of his fights and the results have come back clean.

With no evidence to suggest he’s doping, I see no reason to assume he is. After testing clean multiple times, he should receive the benefit of the doubt.

Lastly, he’s agreed to additional testing and screening – above and beyond what is required by Nevada (which is one of the most highly respected commissions).

The issue isn’t with the tests in general, it’s about blood being drawn in the few days prior to the fight.

I would be interested to see some additional info on testing procedures. If he’s agreeing to give blood immediately after the fight in addition to urine samples at any time… I have a hard time believing he’s attempting to hide anything with all that testing.

They are well within their rights to request they not have blood drawn in the days before the fight – as it doesn’t happen in any other boxing match.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 am
bacuzi Says:

There’s an interesting interview with Freddie Roach over 8countnew.com (Ace, I hope you will not be mad for mentioning other websites). It’s about Freddie’s response to this recent issue on Drug Testing a day before the fight.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 am
Ace Freeman Says:

@ bacuzi

I have read it. There’s no secret that it’s all Freddie when it comes down to the disagreement over this point.

He’s gone on record saying any time Manny has blood drawn he’s extremely uncomfortable and takes a few days to fully recover.

If anyone is interested there are several articles that elaborate on this topic collected by our friends at Philboxing.com:

http://philboxing.com/
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 am
tipak Says:

why is it that the other fight of mayweather with dela hoya, marquez, and any other big fight doesn’t have blood test a day before the fight? we agree that blood testing should be taken after the fight immediately when mayweather goes down.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 am
Joe Bruiser Says:

I don’t think the problem is blood testing the day before the fight. From my understanding, Pacquiao’s camp doesn’t want any blood testing after 30 days before the fight:

from ESPN.com:

“According to Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer, who is negotiating the deal with Top Rank president Todd duBoef, Pacquiao refuses to have his blood drawn within 30 days of the bout based on his superstition of testing so close to a fight.”

Team Pacquiao is saying that they would like to do the blood test 2 months before the fight, around the press conference dates, and then not again until after the fight. That seems excessively conservative to me, and essentially defeats the point of Olympic style testing which was agreed to.

This is what Freddie Roach previously said a couple of weeks ago:

“I have no problem with the testing whatsoever,” Roach said then. “They can do whatever kind of drug testing they want. They’re scared of Manny and scared of his power. He’ll pass any test in the world.”

ESPN.com is also reporting this:

“In addition, Schaefer told ESPN.com that the sides had agreed on an unprecedented penalty if either fighter weighed in heavier than the contract limit of 147 pounds.

‘We agreed to $10 million per pound, or fraction thereof,’ Schaefer said. ‘That’s what the Pacquiao side wanted and we said OK to that. That’s unheard of. We have agreed on everything except for this drug testing issue. I have to think Pacquiao is unaware of this. The drug testing had been part of the contract for a while and then they suddenly said no. I was informed of that [Tuesday] morning. Suddenly they changed course and I don’t know why.’“
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 am
the expert Says:

ok here it is… the truth is Manny is willing to give blood, but not 30 day after the fght because it can affect his power… a power the he needed to knock out Mayweather, a punch that Mayweather tries to avoid so that they want it to have a blood sample 30 days before the fight…

Mayweather ain’t no Rely on his power… he doesn’t need that.. he wants to outbhox Pacquiao, but the problem is with power and speed he has a bigger chance of falling down once hit…

Blood is a good factor for drug testing coz it’s more accurate than urine… The truth is Manny agrees to have his blood drawn from him but not 30 days after the fight coz it will coz him some weakness like the Morales fight… 24 blood drawn…

u know what i have been tested for drug that when the needle pricks you somehow after that you will feel strange wtf and the result will be the same (-), damn works…. IF you’re negative then your negative…

post fight blood drawn is the same… if Pacquiao uses drugs it would appear the he is after the fight…

the logic there is if pacman would not take that drug ( if the accusations of Mayweather Sr and his clans is true – but i bet 1000000000% false; only an excuse to avoid the fight and blame it on Pacquiao for not complying: silly mind games, but Roach will have them comical after the issue is done[as always, they are funny]) then he will not have the power and speed for that night thought the result might have been positive also if he take it, just before or while he was practicing…

I thought Mayweather Sr. knows that???? I bet he didn’t study well in 12th grade in which he claims he stops… drugs can be detected even at a hair follicle… and urine was the easiest way but have 90% accuracy… So why not take urine before the fight and take BLOOD and URINE after the fight it’s that simple don’t make issue so big that it could lose the fight and blame it on PACMAN… they are just afraid especially Sr…
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:40 am
Bryson Bell Says:

Its very clear Mayweather has already won this fight. Mentally PacMan and Freddie Roach have lost this fight. This is not just another boxing match Ace, we all agree this will be perhaps this biggest fight in the history of boxing, of our era. Morales had blood drawn just like PacMan did in their first fight and he still outclassed Manny.
With a fight of this magnitude, for this fans, both fighters resumes, history, legacy, money, respect, and pure integrity of the sport this is the way it must be. Mayweather is doing the right thing. Winning mentally. EARLY. Freddie Roach is to arrogant in his predictions to not make a true boxing fan believe his fighters are’nt on PEDS
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 am
Bryson Bell Says:

Im sure alot of us FightFans have been pricked, donated blood, donated PLASMA, all of these involve being pricked, but we dont think about the pricking, we think about the MONEY that were going to get after its done. Donating PLasma takes alot of blood, and time. Yet when its over you dont feel hurt mentally afterwards, unless you know you broke some rules before donating. (Like taking PEDS) which would should up anyway while (donating plasma or blood).
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:01 am
Ace Freeman Says:

“Team Pacquiao is saying that they would like to do the blood test 2 months before the fight, around the press conference dates, and then not again until after the fight. That seems excessively conservative to me, and essentially defeats the point of Olympic style testing which was agreed to.”

The entire notion of unprecedented drug testing is what seems excessively conservative to me.

And beyond that, I don’t think it’s fair for anyone to suggest they knows what’s been agreed upon to this point.

I certainly wouldn’t take either side’s word at present when they’re both violating their own non disclosure agreement to gain clout in the press.

This is a terribly small detail for this fight to be snagged on, and it should be made abundantly clear that this requested testing is far above and beyond any pro boxing match ever held.

From what I’ve read the Nevada State Athletic commission is quite perturbed by all of this as it really undermines their testing procedures and credibility… and they are widely regarded as the best boxing commission in the world.

If all of their required tests are made – and additional blood and urine tests are done on top of that… that is light years beyond what’s ever been done surrounding a boxing match.

As I said earlier, Team Pacquaio not wanting blood drawn 30 days before the fight is no more an outrageous request than is the demand for additional testing itself.

It’s all negotiating at this point, and I find it really hard to believe either side is going to let the fight implode over it.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:06 am
Ace Freeman Says:

“Morales had blood drawn just like PacMan did in their first fight and he still outclassed Manny.”

No, he didn’t. Prior to the fight Pacquiao’s blood work was overlooked in renewing his license. The blood drawn wasn’t for the fight itself, it was for Manny to be licensed.

Secondly, I think it’s a bit premature to suggest anyone has won the mental battle at this point when they’re still negotiating small details. If something that small was going to take Manny off his game, his tumultuous lifestyle would have done him in long ago.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:10 am
mickey mouse Says:

That’s just Mayweathers excuse not to fight Manny!Mayweather chickenshit!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 am
Bryson Bell Says:

We can all see Manny is a crybaby, that happens to be a great boxer at the same time.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 am
Joe Bruiser Says:

“If all of their required tests are made – and additional blood and urine tests are done on top of that… that is light years beyond what’s ever been done surrounding a boxing match.”

Except boxing matches that take place in the Olympics, where all participants adhere to this standard.

Olympic style testing, whether you agree with it or not, was one of the first points Mayweather brought to the table when the talks for the fight commenced. So it’s not like it’s just something they brought up at the last minute.

“From what I’ve read the Nevada State Athletic commission is quite perturbed by all of this as it really undermines their testing procedures and credibility… and they are widely regarded as the best boxing commission in the world.”

The credibility of most drug testing procedures have been undermined time and time again because they can, and have been beaten.

I really don’t care one way or the other what is agreed to, but I don’t think that Mayweather requesting stricter testing for both fighters is all that outrageous, especially in light of the unprecedented $10 million per pound penalty requested by the Pacquiao camp that he’s agreed to.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 am
Ace Freeman Says:

But the differences between boxing in the Olympics and professional boxing is night and day, and there is no president for adopting their standards for drug testing in any way. It’s unheard of.

I have heard Mayweather’s camp make mention of more extensive drug testing in the press, but again, there is no way to know what has and hasn’t been agreed to at this point.

There is no way of taking a quote from either Top Rank or Golden Boy and allude to the fact either of them is violating something that’s been agreed on. No one has any idea.

The very fact they’re airing all of this after saying they weren’t going to negotiate in the press really leaves a lot of egg on both of their faces.

If at the end of the day the issue is drug testing that will ensure Pacquiao is clean, I’m sure there has to be a way that can be accomplished without the fight imploding.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:43 am
DON Says:

WHAT IS PROVEN IS THE FACT THAT MAYWEATHER IS SCARED TO FIGHT THE BEST WELTERWEIGHT SO THIS IS AGAIN HIS EXCUSE FOR NOT FIGHTING PACMAN. ITS OK MAYWEATHER WE ALL KNOW YOU CANT WIN JUST ADMIT IT COWARD. CHICKEN MAYWEATHER. HE THINKS HE CAN FOOL US. ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SMART KNOWS THE TRUTH THAT THIS IS ANOTHER FIGHT THAT YOU ADMIT THAT YOU ARE A COWARD.THE OTHERS ARE JUST VERY DUMB.NO BRAIN
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:44 am
JcFoo Says:

Mind games.. all mind games buy floyd.. constant pressure to manny.. but i dont think manny will get the same pressure from floyd inside the ring. floyd just wants to have little things in his favor as much as possible bcoz he thinks this is a hard fight for him. just like having the fight on march 13..(too early for manny).. this his only plan left bcoz he cant run from this fight.. remember floyd has a very good defence inside the ring. and even better outside.. floyd pls stop w/this crap, manny is clean. this only shows that you hve doubt losing to manny.. u said nobody can beat u right?…………Pacquaio UD12……. SIGNIFICANT BUT BORING FIGHT TO THE END..
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:46 am
Ace Freeman Says:

As for the 10 Million clause… it’s a ridiculous sum, but it does ensure the fight will take place at welterweight and not a catch weight.

A lot of people are quick to harp on Floyd and point out that a sum like that is warranted in pointing to him coming in heavy in his last fight… but they’re not remembering it was a 144 pound catch weight where he came in at 146 pounds.

I can’t see Floyd having much of a problem agreeing to any sum if the limit is 147 pounds. He’ll make that limit with ease. I don’t think there was much argument on this point for that reason.

Neither guy should be able to come in heavy and just toss some money in the pot. It looks good on everyone and boxing in general if this fight happens at welterweight without issue.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:51 am
Dean Says:

I believe Manny is takeing something, because if he was`nt; he would agree to take the tests!

I think in the end, Manny will make the right decision and take the tests or other wise, i dont think the fight will take place, because Mayweather wont fight him untill he knows its going to be a fair fight!
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 am
Enough is Enough! Says:

Alright… I keep trying to give Floyd the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, it’s too much.

Pacman was a malnourished kid who ate one bowl of rice a day. He could barely afford sandals and did road work in flip flops that had holes in the soles.

Now that he can afford a decent meal and nutritionist so that he can walk around at his natural welterweight, the Mayweathers seek to destroy his reputation.

The Mayweather are starting to really show their ignorance and lack of reasoning skills with their argument of Manny on PEDs.

I urge all of you doubters to go the The Philippines, observe the malnourished kids and then come back and tell me they use steroids when they gain weight because they are finally eating 3 square meals a day.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:40 am
Enough is Enough! Says:

Floyd Sr in the Pacman/Hatton 24/7 constantly boasted about how he is the best trainer in the sport…

what happened?

Sr. goes to Taco Bell and shows up late to training camp and late to the fight.

Hatton get’s his ass kicked in round 1.

Rather than offer guidance to Hatton in the corner, Floyd Sr instead elects to blame Ricky for ‘not listening to him since day one’

what a loser.

This steroid issue is not about Pacquiao. It’s about Floyd Sr and his fractured ego.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:17 am
anna Says:

GO TO HELL FLOYD, YOUR COWARD ASKING TO MUCH. MANNY ALREADY AGREES TO UNDERGO BLOOD TEST AFTER PRESSCON AND AFTER THE FIGHT NOT BEFORE THE FIGHT (24/48 HRS) BECAUSE MANNY REASON WOULD AFFECT HIS CONDITIONING (MENTALLY/PHYSICALLY). AFTER THIS BLOOD TEST ISSUE FLOYD WILL AGAIN REQUEST MANNY ANOTHER BS… BOTTOM LINE IS MAYWEATHER HAS NO INTENTION TO FIGHT PACMAN COZ THEY KNOW MAYWEATHER WILL KO BY PACMAN. NOW WILL SUPPORT PACMAN GOING FOR 8 DIVISION WORLD TITLE (PACMAN VS YURI FOREMAN) GO GO GO MANNY..
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:39 am
Anonymous Says:

you are some sad people that you have to hate floyd that bad that you are willing to exept a cheater just because you want him to lose every body on here knows pac have been cheating some of you are the same people that jump barry bonds he never fail a drug test either its all about race pacs on hgh and he dont take it he should be strip and ban
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:46 am
BG Says:

I agree with pacmans camp no blood should be taken before the fight.Will they both be taking the same drug test at the same time?They both just need to agree on something cuz boxing really needs this fight. So hope they just hurry and agree on something soon.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:47 am
Anonymous Says:

all you racist go to hell lol its going to be a fair fight like it ornot
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:50 am
anna Says:

THEY SAY PACMAN IS CHEATING . . . COM ON GUY REMEMBER
WHEN FLOYD VS MARQUEZ FIGHT HAS AN AGREED WEIGHT ON 144LBS. THEN COME ON WEIGHT IN DAY WHEN FLOYD AT 146 LBS “WHO’S CHEATER”?
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:53 am
MIKE Says:

“Mayweather can go to hell.”
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:57 am
Anonymous Says:

Just heard the our local interview of Pacman here in the Philippines. Manny believes(actually its about his superstitious belief) drawing blood before a fight weakens him. Mayweather camp actually found a cryptonite for Pacman!
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:04 am
BG Says:

Anna Floyd is not scared he just wants to be safe but what he is doing is for safety. Anyways Floyd is taking the same test so it’s fair. Pacman is always messing with other fighters conditioning by making them drop weight. If he wanted Cotto’s 147 belt he should have fought him at 147. Same with Oscar they only want them under there real weight. So it can affect there conditioning it’s smart but not really cool. Pacman is the 145 champ with a 147 title. Why even have a title at 147 if u ain’t goin to fight at 147. I know ur probably thinking its 2lb but when already in shape it’s hard to lose 2lb. I’m not a Mayweather fan just a boxing fan and Floyd will out box pacman.Just watch as much as I want pacman to win he won’t Floyd is a mad scientist in the ring.What Floyds goin to run like everybody is saying but that’s boxing. From when that bell rings Pacman is fighting Floyds fight.
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:26 am
rambo Says:

another lame excuse for mayweather!!! its all about malunggay,balut,isda and nilagang baka mixed with white rice lol
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:44 am
rambo Says:

i bet next time mayweather will ask pacman to be tested for being an alien of this planet…pacman i new your from planet KO LOL…PACMAN ALL THE WAY!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:59 am
dexter Says:

if you believe with mayweather you should believe that the Nevada State Athletic Commission is a corrupt organization.. NSAC is not idiot to conduct drug test to the fighters with no basis,. im sure they do it because they believe its a proven technique of drug testing.. just think of it!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:32 am
atoy Says:

Common ugly flyod, enough with all those alibi.
you don’t wanna fight manny, you know what will happen to you. you will have the same footing with ODLH . . . .
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:46 am
Nikon Says:

Screw Mayweather and GBP. I never really hated the Mayweathers, but now I despise them. I seriously want to see Floyd’s face blooded and busted up. This fight has to continue!
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:46 am
Nikon Says:

Another thing to add…Pacquiao is a smaller fighter. Draining blood from him at a critical moment is not the same as draining blood from Mayweather. Think about it, come fight night Mayweather will probably rehydrate to about 155-160, Pacquiao will probably come in not too far above 147 lbs. or might even come under depending on his weight during weigh in. Seriously when you have perhaps 40 million on the line, every little thing can affect this fight. This just seems like a ploy from the bigger, longer reaching fighter to eek every advantage out of Manny. Seriously, Mayweather is the biggest disgrace to boxing ever.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:29 am
gakiis47 Says:

whoa!

It seems the Mayweathers do not and will not run out of excuses. They are afraid of Manny, period. Manny has agreed to blood testing after the fight. So I don’t really get it why the Mayweathers has to insist on drawing blood within the start of training and the fight. Worst, they might even do it the day before the fight. Having your blood drawn out saps one’s strength and will definitely affect Manny’s performance. Where is fair play in that? Let’s go by the usual standards in so far as drug testing is concerned during a scheduled fight. Blood testing after the fight is the requirement. And for the Mayweathers, cut the crap and train hard. No time for BS tricks. Manny will come out clean as always.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
Twanaz816 Says:

Here we go!!!!

All I am hearing is that MAYWEATHER is being ridiculous by most people.

Kudos to ACE for saying that both sides can’t be believed at this point.

BUT
Lets get some facts straight.

Roach is said”I will not let my fighter take a blood test the day before a fight,” Roach said. “If they give me a five-day window or something like that I have no problem with it.”

That is more then fair. But this 30 day thing is crazy, there are TOO MANY things that can be taken, and stopped so that it won’t show up after the fight in the urine.

Travis Tygart, executive director of the USADA even raises this point”Blood tests, he said, can find things urine tests can’t, like the use of human growth hormone, synthetic hemoglobin or blood transfusions, all of which “certainly would aid in an endurance-type event.”

In previous fight Pac hasn’t taken these test, just normal urine test. And unfortuanatly in this “great” world, you are “guilty until proven innocent”

Also lets not FORGET, any test that Pac takes Mayweather HAS to submit the same test!!!

So the Morales fight wont happen, Both fighter will be at the SAME “DISADVANTAGE”

And the 10 million, all though a high number, seems to catch Mayweather’s attention, and will make sure the fight will be at 147, and I will agree with ACE, Floyd will make that easy.

Peace Out!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
Pugilist Says:

If Alberto Cantodor can have his blood taken then ride a bike for over 100 miles through mountains. There is no excuse for Pacquiao not to give a blood test.

What Mayweather is doing is good for the sport. People have died in boxing due to the brutality of the sport before steroids was even invented. A PED user in the modern era could easily kill someone, or cause the early onset of dementia pugilistica.

If the Nevada athletic commission is upset. Then tell them to get off their butts and have more stringent testing. If their testing was any good why did it not catch Shane Mosley nor Fernando Vargas? The Nevada Athletic Commission might just try to rob Floyd if the fight is close because of this.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 am
Pugilist Says:

Paulie Malignaggi makes some interesting points.
http://bit.ly/90i0rD

For folks who say Pacquiao is drug free because he has never tested positive for performance enhancing drugs.

Mark McGwire – Barry Bonds – Shane Mosley – Marion Jones – Amy Van Dyken – Garry Sheffield

All have never tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. But, each due to court testimony or evidence are confirmed performance enhancing drug users.
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:45 am
Pugilist Says:

Here is proof of why testing immediately before a fight and immediately afterward for not just urine but also blood is crucial.

Dr. Michael Ashenden he has developed the EPO performance enhancing drug test for the Olympics.
http://bit.ly/vwG9P

Dr. Michael Ashenden = “EPO is a hormone, it’s a very small molecule, and it’s present in very very low concentrations in the bloodstream, even lower concentrations in urine. And the half life of EPO is something in the realm of eight to twelve hours, so one day after you’ve had an injection the levels are dramatically lower. Usually three or four days after you’ve had an injection all traces of EPO have left the circulation or at least aren’t present at a high enough level for the urine test to be a definitive piece of evidence that EPO is being used.”
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:52 am
gakiis47 Says:

Floyd camp are singing the same tune all over again. Obviously he can’t retire for a 2nd time given all the hype surrounding the megafight. People want the fight to happen. Now they are into this drug testing issue.
Is there something amiss with the drug testing implemented by the Nevada Athletic Commission? Are the Mayweathers trying to say the test being made previously in all of the previous bouts held there were not sufficiently done? Why do they want to change the manner by which test standards all of a sudden? Once again, eyebrows are raised.

Cmon man give us a break. STOP THE EXCUSES!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 pm
the expert Says:

each of us has different mental status if Manny is afraid of needle then it must be respected he is willing to take the drug test post fight…

it’s like no issue at all coz if it’s positive then it’s positive no other question about that coz if Manny is taking PEDS he will take it either close dates before the fight or the date of the fight…

to tell you PEDS just don’t go for days they go for weeks to years so what’s the matter with that…

the issue is whether they take it before the fight (blood that is) or post fight Manny and his camp likes it post fight no difference like i said if and only if Manny is taking the drug we have a so called onset, peak and duration…

first onset when will the drug take effect,
2nd peak when will be the drug strongest effect
3rd duration up to when will the drug last…

means and only means that, again to clarify to such uneducated to medical field that, Manny should the drug within its duration or else it will be non-sense hence, he will be positive even post fight….

Am i right??? read this coz it’s important also for all of you…

And likewise, as I told you on my latter post drugs can be detected (illegal such as cocain, shabu and enhancers like steroids) weeks to month some up to years… even in a urine catch, and will be more evident if blood drawn,,, so it’s doesn’t matter if it’s post fight, if it’s positive it’s positive if it’s negative it’s negative..

Manny undergone test before and it’s negative proving such alibi from Mayweather camp, which is very very comical in its state coz it seems to prove they are afraid to fight Pacman to it’s fullest…

“I will say it again we have different state of mind settings” may be you’re afraid of spiders and i might eat it with my bare tongue… Am i right…

Respect is all we can to do to make the fight Happened and avoid some mind sickening,funny escape blaming reason, coz he’s afraid he’s gonna lose, his father knows that.. that’s why he doesn’t want his son to fight pacman…>>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldUEDoNEI7E

And to say Mayweather winning the fight of minds???

you’re wrong coz Manny is laughing his “A” on this arguement he knows he’s negative coz he doesn’t use any,,, he laugh coz he can see the “Fear of being eaten” from Mayweather’s camp..

Wait for mind games when the contract is signed as Freddie Roach has more than that and Roger together with Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Sr., will look funny in the eyes of the audience and after fight night…

You will see blood on the canvass coming from a knock out Mayweather Jr. and the “0″ has a nail (1)
and will retired for ever … Mark my words..

To those who remains skeptics,,, I love you guys thanks you people Made me Rich.,.. I’ll make 250K box dollars (US) on this one… Bet coz every cent counts..

SPEED, POWER, STAMINA, HEART, FAITH to GOD and ONESELF = MANNY PACMAN PACQUIAO Goodspeed Manny…
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
gakiis47 Says:

What about making the Nevada Athletic Commission send a representative each to both camps whose main task is to monitor their daily activities in detail up until fight time? This in addition to the standard drug testing they carry out.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

I agree that the $10 Million per pound (or even fraction) over, is likely irrelevant and that’s why Mayweather already agreed to it, it is defnitely a ridiculous liability.

If for some reason one of the fighter’s bodies reacts poorly to making weight (like what happened to Castillo, Corrales, Campbell, Guzman, etc) even though they had every intention of making weight (well maybe not Castillo ;) they could potentially be on the hook for $20 or $30 Million dollars.

That seems a bit crazy to me.

Even for the De La Hoya fight, it was only a $3 million per pound penalty, and De La Hoya IS someone that can throw that can kind of money around like it’s nothing.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
the expert Says:

and for the stupidity about the wieght issue of pacman jumping from 135 to 147 ..

READ THIS POST ….

OK YOU REVIEW THE FIGHT FROM ERICK MORALES TO MARQUEZ…

WHAT WAS THE WEIGHT OF MANNY??? 144 to 146 i think so it’s not a big issue (I AM TALKING THE NIGHT IT SELF, WHEN HE STEPS INTO THE RING)

MORE or LESS PACMAN is comfortable on that weight and has more power when he stayed on that weight and just add a little more for the fight…

@Pugilist

“Dr. Michael Ashenden = “EPO is a hormone, it’s a very small molecule, and it’s present in very very low concentrations in the bloodstream, even lower concentrations in urine. And the half life of EPO is something in the realm of eight to twelve hours, so one day after you’ve had an injection the levels are dramatically lower. Usually three or four days after you’ve had an injection all traces of EPO have left the circulation or at least aren’t present at a high enough level for the urine test to be a definitive piece of evidence that EPO is being used.”

the meaning of half life is … – Half-life is the period of time it takes for a substance undergoing decay to decrease by half. The name originally was used to describe a characteristic of unstable atoms (radioactive decay), but may apply to any quantity which follows a set-rate decay.

and the article gets my latter point ok he will be postive post fight if he uses that drug so shut the “F” up ok??? BLood is definite and will detect any of that things…

So Manny ain’t making no excuse he just have a belief or scared of needles something like that and no less he is willing to participate to have his blood drawn post fight,,,

the uring no problem he agrees anything unless it will be collected through a needle wtf ^_^
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
DIEHARD Says:

WHY FOLLOW ORDERS FROM FRAUD SR AND JR?

IN FACT, FRAUD SR IS AN EXCONVICT.

IN A CASE OF DRUG PUSHER.

PACMAN WILL JUST ABIDE THE STATE ATHLETIC COMMISSION TEST,,,,NOT THAT STUPID RANDOM TEST
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Anonymous Says:

O O ya every bodys a doctor know right so all the band wagon pacman fans go head bottom line is your boys got somthing to hide plan in simple man hes a cheat flat out he wants a window and now its out for every one to see all his fights top rank was the onse making the contracts know the shoes on the other foot maywheathers EXPOSED UR BOY PACMAN AND THATS THE END IF HE DOES EXEPT HE WILL LOSE THE FIGHT AND IT WILL BE BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE A WINDOW TO CHEAT AN GET THE EDGE YOU CAN USE SUBSTANCE AND GET OFF THEM IN TIME TO PEAK AND BE CLEAN FOR THEV TEST AFTER THE FIGHT BUT YOU CANT HIDE FROM A RANDOM SCREENING FAKE CHEETIN COWARD HE WILL EVENTUALLY EXEPT BECAUSE THERES TO MUCH MONEY AT STEAK HE WILKL TAKE THE MONEY AND THE LOSE AND RETIRE HE IS NO CHAMPION HES A SHAME TO THE SPORT AND SHOULD BE BANNED FOIR WHAT HE COULD OF DUNE TO THE REAL ATHELETES HES FACED WHAT A JOJJOJJJOOKKKKKKKEKEKEEKEEKEE
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Twanaz816 Says:

Lets see:
“Manny ain’t making no excuse he just have a belief or scared of needles something like that and no less he is willing to participate to have his blood drawn post fight,,,”
Number 1, if Floyd was refusing the test, so many of you will be saying that he is a cheater , or why want he take the test so on and so forth, so please stop that foolishness.

Number 2, you mean to tell me that a belief, and “scared of needles” would keep you from a 40 plus million pay day??!!

Get real

“he will be postive post fight if he uses that drug..”

Some of the stuff, not sure about that particular drug, but there are plenty things that can be out of you system within 2weeks, I agree, that the night of the fight or even 72hrs before the fight would be unfair, but 30 days is crazy.

WHY FOLLOW ORDERS FROM FRAUD SR AND JR?

Come on, Mayweather or “FRAUD”,also has to “FOLLOW SOME OF PAC ORDERS” it happens in every fight, let be realistic, take all the emotion out of the blogs PLEASE!!!

Peace Out!!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

Here’s a good article that simply sums up situation and the fault on both sides:

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2009/12/mayweather-pacquiao_appears_de.html
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:30 pm
The Shocker Says:

Ace Freeman, thank you very much for moderating this site. Your inputs here are highly appreciated. Very simple and yet very objective. I also agree with you that a post fight test, right in the locker room, should be more than enough to satisfy the demands of the Mayweather camp. If he has been on steroids it will show right there and then. A test right after the fight is acceptable enough to a more sensible human being. Let’s just wait and see. I think it’s a done deal.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Prettier than life Says:

How come the Mayweather Camp is singling out Manny on this while in all of FMjr fights he never demanded anything like this. It’s so ridiculous.

The Mayweather clan, Sr, the uncle and the boxer, believes that Manny isn’t capable of winning this fight because PBF is more skilled, stronger and smart. Come to think of it now, it seems to me that they are conceding Manny is actually stronger because they suspect him somewhat on steroids when in fact the Nevada Athletic Commission vouched him clean all through and through…

Have the test after the fight and get ready to rumble!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Anonymous Says:

why are people acting like pac the only one that will be tested .pac team ask for ten million per pound over if some one should have been bitching it should have been pbf but he didn,t he accepted it. pac was asked to do something fair and he could not do that he has a body full of tattoos but hes afraid of needles l know 100% hes a cheater
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
roy Says:

In the first place who did invented this PED and other performance inhancing drugs it is you americans who invented it and first used it and now you are telling us your afraid of your own ghost. Floyed Mayweather Sr. cannot take it that a filipino who came from a poor country beats you on your own game making false accusation just to drag Manny Pacquiao down.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 pm
frisco seven Says:

Here’s the key? Manny is willing to give blood testing and not hiding a thing, one in January and one 30 days before the fight and one right after he knocks out Floyd Scared-weather. 24/7 urine testing all they want. Now whats wrong with that? Don’t tell me that they won’t detect anything right after the fight if manny gives blood! Floyd is scared…put on a jacket to cover up that yellow scared line on your back!
December 24th, 2009 at 5:48 am
kamoteking Says:

the only reason i see is mayweather are afraid to fight manny…anak ng tipaklong talaga oh…
December 24th, 2009 at 11:45 am
James Cooper Says:

Whoever wrote this idiotic article, let me ask you something, when the hell did Pacquiao say he’s refusing to have the drug test?

You need to check your sources or at least don’t copy and paste other articles just to make sure.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

This is a press release Cooper. It’s not an article. It was put up on every boxing news site, as was the retort by Top Rank.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
boxfanatic Says:

some dont get it, they say its just a needle.. I also undergo to many blood test for medical purpose and in my personal experience guys if they extract blood in the major veins of your arm opposite to your elbow you will feel the pain of the wounds it cause, even the amount is just a teasepoonful. and this wounds remain painful for more than a day and also make your arm little bit numb.and if it is done repeatedly even in weeks difference surely your arm will be powerless…. in short they want to cheat pacquiao..to fight in less strength.
December 25th, 2009 at 5:02 am
Ceddybaby Says:

Stop the Bull Pacquiao! and Take the Random Test! You can fool some of the un-informed people, but not the ones who know….If you have enough money you can buy a certain type of Steriods that is undetectable. do the research people…. Let me help you start and this is only a start to your research as follows:

The Cream is the slang name given by Victor Conte to a transdermal designer steroid, containing testosterone and epitestosterone, designed by BALCO to avoid detection on drug tests. While testosterone is certainly an anabolic steroid, epitestosterone is simply an inactive epimer of the parent hormone hormone. The reason the latter would be included in “the cream” along with testosterone is to beat doping tests based on the testosterone:epitestosterone ratio.

Roughly 50% of epitestosterone production in human males is from the testes (1), the rest being produced via other pathways (2). In general a 1:1 ratio is a normal testosterone:epitestosterone ratio. Both testosterone as well as epitestosterone (3) are able to be tested for on a doping control test.

All good so far, right?

Alright, well, when you use exogenous testosterone, you screw up that ratio I was just talking about. So a ratio of 2:1 or 3:1 means your testosterone levels (as compared with your epitestosterone levels) are on the high side. If this ratio gets too high, it is a red flag on a doping test, and a pretty good indicator that someone is breaking the rules. The Tour de France considers a 4:1 ratio a failing level, while the NFL had considered a 6:1 ratio to be failing (as does the IOC).

Honestly, most people would pass a doping test if they were only using small amounts of injectable testosterone suspension on a daily basis. But you can use far more of “the cream” than you would ever be able to use of a typical testosterone based drug, and still test clean. I would suspect that up to 100mgs every day or every other day could easily be used, and still result in a clean blood test. This would be more than enough (for example) to provide an edge to an athlete attempting to shave milliseconds off their 100m sprint time, or even set a lifetime homerun record (*cough cough*). In practical terms, it will provide all of the advantages of testosterone without any of the detectability.

So as you probably guessed, “the cream” is really only something that would be of value to drug tested athletes. Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, and Gary Sheffield all reportedly used the cream, and received a very nice ergogenic boost from it. A cream like this would be very useful for any athlete attempting to boost their recovery ability, muscle mass, and strength levels, without getting caught. For the recreational bodybuilder, and those not subject to blood tests of the athletic variety, it’s a waste of money. It’s not going to produce extremely high testosterone levels unless you are virtually bathing in the stuff, and it’s certainly not going to provide levels high enough to be considered on par with 2-3mls a week of a decently dosed testosterone injection.

If you’re not going to be tested, why take a product that is only designed to provide an advantage to those attempting to beat a drug test. One of my friends has likened this to flying a stealth bomber over a country that doesn’t have radar.
Obviously you aren’t going to find “the cream” (the BALCO version) available anywhere on the Black Market, but if you are a drug tested athlete and can get your hands on something similar, it’s going to be pretty expensive.

References:

1. Secretion by the human testis of epitestosterone, The Journal of steroid biochemistry and molecular biology, 1993 Feb;44(2):171-7.
2. Characterization of 17α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity (17α-HSD) and its involvement in the biosynthesis of epitestosterone, BMC Biochemistry 2005, 6:12, 14 July 2005.
3. Detection of Epitestosterone Doping by Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry, Clinical Chemistry, 2002;48:629-636.
December 26th, 2009 at 4:41 am
jbp Says:

Come on all boxers, this accusation of Pacquiao also points to all of you. If the Nevada Commission is not good enough, therefore champions then and now has to be questioned regarding Drug use. When Pacquiao passed all drug tests and still is being accused of such anomally how about you? Mayweather, Malignaggi, Cinton, De la Hoya, etc…where are you? Are you able to sneak in inspite of the drug tests already available. We are throwing this same accusations at you. Are you not guilty too if you are accusing Pacquiao of such travesty? If Pacquiao would be able take performance enhancing drugs then its likely you would be able too. This is a smack on all you’re faces not just Pacquiao’s. Boxers can be all cheats! Say something boxers!
December 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

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