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Episode two: The Arum-pire strikes back!
By FightFan News Wire (23-Dec-2009)

In response to the release sent out Tuesday by Mayweather Promotions and Golden Boy Promotions which stated that Mayweather vs. Pacquiao was “in jeopardy,” Top Rank’s Bob Arum had the following to say:

“Let’s be very clear on the real issues we differ on. It’s not about being tested. Manny is on-board with that since it’s such a major concern of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. It’s about who does the testing and the scheduling of the procedures. Manny will submit to as many random urine tests requested. Regarding the blood tests, he will subject himself to three tests; one given in January during the week the fight is formally announced, one thirty days from the fight, no later than February 13, and the final one immediately following the fight, in Manny’s locker room.”

“The major issue related to the testing rests with which independent agency will administer these tests. The United States Anti Doping Agency (USADA) cannot do it because they will not amend its procedures to accommodate the blood testing schedule we have outlined. USADA, under its guidelines, would have the right to administer random blood tests as many times as they want up to weigh-in day and that is ludicrous.”

“Our suggestion is to utilize any of the independent agencies that work with the National Football League, the National Basketball Association or Major League Baseball, since they administer drug testing for their professional athletes.”

New York-based athletic physician, Dr. Keith Pyne, a private injury consultant for NFL athletes and those who participate in running and combat sports, told AOL Fanhouse,
“I have more than 800 guys who are special athletes who are all drug-tested. And the urine testing is sufficient that you won’t miss anything, especially with performance-enhancing drugs. So, yes, I believe that the urine testing is more than sufficient for boxing. If you’re using steroids, it’s going to come up for sure in urine. There’s no way it’s going to get through the liver and the kidney without being detected.”

“If Mayweather Promotions and Golden Boy Promotions are sincere in creating “a level playing field,” as they stated in their release, our recommendations should put their minds at ease,” said Arum. “If not, one has to wonder if their motives are more about leveling the fight.”

Pacquiao vs. Mayweather in doubt over drug test issues?

54 Responses to “Episode two: The Arum-pire strikes back!”

Disclaimer: FightFan.com will NOT be held responsible for ANY of the content appearing in the following discussion, but will do it's best ensure that the discussion stays relevant, beneficial, and acceptable to the readers of this site.

Ace Freeman Says:

Well this is just dandy.

When negotiations started, both sides said there was a non disclosure agreement where both sides would remain silent about talks, as to “Not negotiate the fight in the press”

Nice job gents!

This testing stuff is turning in to a fiasco, as is the 10 Million per pound stuff.

If this fight falls apart because of this stuff, it just makes boxing look that much more ignorant to the rest of the world.

Just when they had a fight on deck that was going to shatter records and dominate international sports deadlines, it falls apart because of petty bickering.

This is a good and objective read of the fault on both sides by MLive’s David Mayo:

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2009/12/mayweather-pacquiao_appears_de.html

If this fight falls through, shame on both fighters / camps, and shame on us all as boxing lovers.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

A couple of articles by Kevin Iole at Yahoo Sports:

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-boximpasse122209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=dw-mayweatherpacquiao122309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

A good one on what Michael Rosenthal (at the Ring) would do if he were in either fighter’s shoes:

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/1453/pacquiaomayweather_can_and_must_be_saved/

And a brand new one from Dan Rafael at ESPN, with comments from Bob Arum on Top Rank’s suggested compromise

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4768830
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

I found it very interesting that at the end of Iole’s article, Roach contends that HGH cannot be detected via blood tests anyways, but Iole correctly follows that up with:

“The World Anti-Doping Agency successfully used blood testing at the 2004 Olympics in Athens to test for HGH.”

It’s so difficult to find out who to believe (Team Pacquiao or Team Mayweather), because they are both obviously trying to spin the story in their guy’s favour.

However, The Michael Rosenthal article does a nice job of showing how either fighter’s decision to cave could actually be better for them.

As far as this new testing proposed by Top Rank is concerned, I don’t believe Team Mayweather will go for it as it is, but it may be a step in the right direction.

That said, I would be really surprised if at the end of the day this fight doesn’t come off.

And I think amped up drug testing does nothing but give more credibility to the sport in the eyes of the public who have lost a lot of faith in how “clean” athetes are due to PED scandals in recent years.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

The problem for me is that trying to decide what kind of new drug testing that is best suited for boxing moving forward – and to implement in the biggest fight of all time – is an enormous undertaking considering that it needs to be negotiated in to such an detailed contract.

At the end of the day if this particular detail is truly a line in the sand – USADA testing or no fight…

both sides lose the 40+ million dollar payday, boxing loses it’s biggest fight of all time, and each guy walks away from the biggest fights of their careers.

I find it hard to believe such a small detail can derail so much money and acclaim.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Joe Bruiser Says:

I agree.

However, what Rosenthal had to say gave me hope.

He says that Manny could just step up to the plate and accept the testing (even though it makes him feel uncomfortable). That would shut all the critics up and make him look good in the eyes of the public.

On the other hand, if Mayweather backed off of his demands, he would walk away from this story potentially looking like the bigger man (figuratively ;) and would maybe sway some public opinion in his direction.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Pugilist Says:

This is boxing’s opportunity to get ahead of the performance enhancing drug issue unlike baseball.

True boxing fans should care less about a potential biggest fight in history or $40 million payday.

The saying, “What is the point in gaining the world only to lose your soul” is applicable here.

Can a true boxing fan look at someone like Muhammad Ali in his current state. And say lets have some phony BS testing just for show. Ali is in bad shape and he likely didn’t even face steroid abusers. Boxing is brutal and more than any other sport. Boxing should have a PED testing system second to none not even cycling.

Also, I’m near the Atlanta area and friends with folks who know Vernon Forrest. They said Vernon Forrest was already showing some signs of dementia. And, who did Vernon Forrest fight a steroid/HGH abusing Sugar Shane Mosley. There is something deeply wrong about that my friends.

What Floyd is doing is giving boxing a greater gift than anything he could ever do in the ring. He has taken a huge step to keeping this sport clean. If this mega fight is subject to Olympic testing, no other fighter can say Olympic testing is beneath them. This is bigger than Mayweather or Pacquiao this is about the soul of boxing.
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Ron Says:

“What Floyd is doing is giving boxing a greater gift than anything he could ever do in the ring. ..This is bigger than Mayweather or Pacquiao this is about the soul of boxing.”

It sounds noble and I wish it were true but it’s not. Floyd is just looking out for himself because Pacman stands on the verge of serving Floyd his first professional defeat and he wants every advantage he can get. It’s that simple.

where were the steroid accusations when Pacman weighed in at 130 but showed up to the fight at 144? The only thing Pacquiao is doing now is fighting at his natural weight. He simply stopped starving himself to make 130 and stopped bloating himself up the typical 10 – 15 pounds most fighters do after the weigh in.

where was Floyd’s crusade against steroids when Cotto showed up to fight Pacquiao? If I remember correctly, Floyd stated Pacquiao would beat Cotto because he’s a fast starter, not because of steroids.

This is about protecting Mayweather’s legacy and ego. Not the soul of boxing.
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
pambansang kamao Says:

My dear Mr. Pugilist,
I am surprised by your reasoning making the Mayweather camp like a crusader of “clean” boxing. You make them appear that they are noble bunch of guys trying.
Telling us that “what floyd is doing is giving boxing a greater gift than anything he could ever do in the ring….taking a huge step to keeping the sport clean…” is a lot of bull (pardon my language).
I believe this would be the first time that such a stringent condition is being asked by somebody who has questionable character and attitude.
The Mayweather camp is just a bunch of clowns who talk too much giving professional boxing a bad name.
If they are really sincere about knowing who really is the best pound for pound fighter in the world…then step up and fight. Have a drug test based on the regular procedures being conducted by the boxing commission. Freddie Roach was right in saying that both boxers can have a more stringent drug testing after the fight. I think who ever is found guilty of using “performance enhancing drugs” after a victory will be hollow and an embarrassment to the sport of boxing. Go ask Margarito…
We are being lead away to the real issue…do they really want this fight to happen or not? Come on guys…I think the Mayweather camp must switch to another profession…and that is to be SPIN DOCTORS!
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Pugilist Says:

Ron says: “It sounds noble and I wish it were true but it’s not. Floyd is just looking out for himself because Pacman stands on the verge of serving Floyd his first professional defeat and he wants every advantage he can get. It’s that simple.”

How is Floyd gaining an advantage when both he & Pacquiao will be taking the same performance enhancing drug tests?

If Manny Pacquiao is so afraid of needles explain all of his tatoos?
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Pugilist Says:

pambansang kamao says “Have a drug test based on the regular procedures being conducted by the boxing commission.”

Why should the Nevada Athletic Commission be trusted when they failed to catch Shane Mosley taking steroids? Court evidence showed Balco Laboratories was giving Mosley performance enhancing drugs.

Why should we trust the same testing agencies that baseball uses? Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Jason Giambi all these known steroid users never tested positive under MLB standards.
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Nikon Says:

THIS IS NOTHING BUT PURE RACISM! FLOYD AND OTHER LIKE MINDED RACIST CAN’T ACCEPT THAT A MAN WHO CAME FROM THE THIRD WORLD IS CAPABLE OF BEATING THEM IN SUCH A CONVINCING MANNER. IF MANNY WAS AN AMERICAN NO SUCH ACCUSATIONS WOULD BE EVEN MENTIONED.

FLOYD MAYWEATHER, HIS ENTIRE FAMILY AND ALL THOSE WHO SUPPORT SUCH ACCUSATIONS ARE ALL RACIST!

RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST!
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Pugilist Says:

Leonard Ellerbe summed this issue up best:

“The reason why they don’t want to do that is because obviously there is something to hide,” Ellerbe said. “You’re not going to dictate to an organization like USADA, which has tested the elite athletes of the world, on how their testing is conducted. Arum is talking about the fighters like they’re going to have a blood transfusion. We’re talking about a tablespoon of blood. We’re taking about a tablespoon. This is the same representation of Manny Pacquiao that says he’s superstitious and doesn’t like needles and then you look all over his body and he has tattoos. So which one is it? If there’s nothing to hide then what is the problem?

“Boxing has an opportunity and a platform with the whole world watching to say we have a clean sport. What better opportunity that with the two top guys in the sport stepping up to make this happen?”
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Saluyot Says:

I find this mess a very disorder though it is not that worthy to bite at.
In the first look, it seems that Floyd has the good intention but looking it dipper it only shows that he is a shameful coward and a big cheater.
BIG CHEATER:
Look what he had done during his fight with Marquez. He stubbornly broke the rules. He is way above the desired weight limit.
He knows for a fact that anyone who extract blood before fight time (Within one week, how much more if it IS 2 days before) will surely affect one’s performance. As Roach said, the eFfect it is just like having a sex before fight time.
It is the first in the history of boxing by having this drug testing as insisted by Mayweather and not as recommended by the boxing council.
Is Mayweather dictating the rules in boxing?
SHAMEFUL COWARD:
Is he taking this issue as an alibi not to push thru this fight and for him not to be called as coward?

The 10 Million Dollard penalty for every excess pound is too much for him. Surely this will negate his intention to fight over weight, which i think he intend to do it for he knows that his skill is at peak when he is at 150.
This is clearly seen during his fight with Marquez.
Compare the look at the face of Marquez and Cotto after their respective fight. Which has the damaged face?
With that i think, Floyd has the big doubt in defeating Manny at 147.
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Dolla bill Says:

“Look what he had done during his fight with Marquez. He stubbornly broke the rules. He is way above the desired weight limit.”

Wrong. That was a welterweight fight (limit 147) with stipulations written in.

Mayweather weighed in a pound below welterweight, but two above the 144 limit. The clause to pay the money was written in the contract. It was not cheating. Some of you doods are idiots with the way you reach for stuff.
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Ron Says:

Pugilist,

It’s a psychological advantage Floyd is gaining. He is preying on Manny’s personal beliefs.

I’m all for getting every fair advantage you can get in boxing.

However, the Propaganda tactics and smear campaign the Mayweather camp has resorted has seriously left a bad taste in my mouth.

This totally reminds me of all the smear Obama had to face when he ran for President in 2008.
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Cashflow Says:

Hey Ace:
The fight just brought in another 10 million ppv buys with this “situation”. Why do people get caught up in this stuff?
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

Believe me, controversy about Steroids doesn’t sell anything. There’s no way this is positive press.

Also, the record for PPV buys is 2.14 Million. You might want to tone down your numbers if you’re going to toss them out so freely.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Pugilist Says:

Why should the Nevada Athletic Commission be trusted when the could not catch this.

http://bit.ly/7cUiXX http://bit.ly/4ji2DQ

http://bit.ly/7cUiXX

Doping calendars seized in the BALCO raid show that champion boxer Shane Mosley scaled back his use of the notorious doping agent EPO in the two weeks before his Sept. 13 title fight with Oscar De La Hoya, as his blood grew unnaturally thick with oxygen-rich red blood cells.

That corresponds with previous reports that seized medical records showed Mosley’s hematocrit – a measure of red blood cells, and therefore endurance – shooting up 8.2% in just two weeks.

Hematocrit readings rarely fluctuate that much naturally, and usually linger in the low 40s for non-doping men. Anything over 50 will get an Olympic cyclist or marathon runner suspended from competition. Mosley jumped from 44 to 52.2 in two weeks as he prepared for the fight.

Boxer “Sugar” Shane Mosley testified in 2003 that he injected himself with the notorious doping agent EPO as he prepared for his light-middleweight title fight against Oscar De La Hoya,

When asked if he had gotten EPO from Conte, Mosley replied: “Yes, the hematocrit.”
“And that’s something you actually inject into yourself?” he was asked by Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeff Nedrow.
“I think it’s right by your stomach, yes,” Mosley said, indicating where the drug is often injected.

At one point in the questioning, Nedrow produced a calendar seized from the BALCO lab showing Mosley used a potent cocktail of steroids and EPO right up until a few days before his victorious fight with De La Hoya on Sept. 13, 2003. The calendars denote which days Mosley was supposed to take which substances.

Conte, who estimates Mosley injected himself 20 times on each side of his belly button in the month before the fight, says he drew up the calendar while Mosley watched.

Nedrow then pointed to the letter “E,” which appears on the calendars at regular intervals in July and August.
“E, are those the injections of the EPO?,” Nedrow asked Mosley.
“Yes, those would be the days,” Mosley answered.

“[Conte] told me that, you know, the hematocrit level was supposed to be at a certain level,” Mosley testified. “And like cyclists and a lot of long distance runners and stuff like that use it… he explained that to me and I said: ‘Okay, that’s something that I can do to get my endurance as high as it can possibly be.”
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

Pugulist I think it goes without saying both the substances tested for and the technology behind the tests themselves has improved considerably in the 7 years since 2003 with what a hot button issue it’s become.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Pugilist Says:

Ace you are right the tests have likely gotten better. But, you can’t test if you can’t draw blood. As of now for EPO & HGH blood tests are the only reliable tests. But, the articles clearly show the techniques Mosley used to avoid positive drug tests. This shows why not just this fight, but every fight should have intensive testing right up to the actual fight.

Not saying you are anyone else didn’t read the article but folks please take this to heart:

1.) “Mosley injected EPO roughly every other day for 14 days, then went into the “maintenance phase” where he used the drug once a week, beginning on Aug. 15. Mosley then began to taper off the drug so that he wouldn’t test positive in the event that he was tested for EPO following the fight.”

- We all know Mosley never tested positive for that fight. That clearly shows that simply testing blood after the fight is not sufficient.

2.) “Mosley scaled back his use of the notorious doping agent EPO in the two weeks before his Sept. 13 title fight with Oscar De La Hoya”

- Pacquiao’s team doesn’t even want testing within a month before the fight. As Shane Mosley’s Doping calendar shows that is suspicious to say the least.

Going by Pacquiao’s team’s standards Shane Mosley would test negative for this fight too.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Pugilist Says:

That would be a great subject to bring up to Pacquiao’s team including Bob Arum and Freddie Roach.

Show them Shane Mosley’s Balco doping calendar. And, then show how Mosley had his PED use timed in a way that he would not test positive under Bob Arum’s suggested standards. Much in the same way Mosley avoided testing positive in 2003.

I guarantee you that interview ends real fast.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

You raise some good points pugilist, but as I said earlier, if it’s a question of reexamining the entire testing system for the sport of boxing…

it’s going to prove a dubious undertaking in trying to do it before and in specific to the biggest fight of all time.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Pugilist Says:

I am absolutely sincere about this being for the good of the sport. Just look at how the McGwire’s & Sosa homerun chase is viewed now. Look at how badly baseball is still hurting from that.

Lets say Pacquiao KOs Mayweather in dramatic fashion in a historic bout.

Like it or not because of the allegations surrounding Pacquiao investigative reporters are going to be all over him, Freddie Roach, and his strength coach Alex Ariza past, present, & future.

Lets say several months after the fight there is a headline saying, “Pacquiao’s strength coach linked to Steroids”. That would be a story of Tiger Woods like proportions if Manny wins.

Could boxing survive such a blow?
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

Can it survive the blow of this fight falling apart?

I don’t think it’s fair to assume Pacquiao is on steroids, and if the issue is stricter testing sports wide – that is a larger issue than this fight itself.

Suppose the fight doesn’t come off… is this same concern brought up with each man in their next fight, and every other fight for that matter?

There are a lot of problems that come with blowing this issue up, and they are all bigger than this fight itself.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Pugilist Says:

If I came off as assuming Pacquiao is using PEDs that wasn’t my intention.

But, for sake of debate if Pacquiao wins this fight he likely is propelled to being the most highly regarded athlete in the world. He would be boxing’s sole superstar. It is not safe having all you eggs in one basket.

You have to look no further than the PGA with Tiger Woods. They are saying tournament prize may see a significant decline. The media in general is clamoring for boxing’s demise, and inflating MMA.

If Pacquiao is launched into the stratosphere with a win the fall will be that much harder, “IF” he is eventually linked to PEDs. They are going to go sniffing through Manny’s past like you wouldn’t believe. If he has any link to steroids it will eventually come out. Whoever finds a connection is going to release it only when they can get the most media attention (ARod right at the start of spring training. Barry Bonds homerun chase.)

That is why Pacquiao’s team posturing on this issue really scares me. The testing method they proposed is even more suspicious. Who wants the cloud of PEDs hanging over boxing the way it currently does sports like baseball, cycling, and track and field.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

You lose me at the point you call out team Pacquiao for posturing. The posturing is suggesting drug tests outside the realm of the NSAC in the first place.

I think you raise some interesting points about PEDs and boxing in general, but as mentioned, that is a larger issue that seems to be caught up in a microcosm within these negotiations.

Boxing is what it is. If you have issues with it in general, it’s hard to fault Pacquiao for not agreeing to unheard of changes in the weeks prior to the biggest fight of his life.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Pugilist Says:

Ace again you are right. I may be placing too big a burden on this fight to carry the torch against performance enhancing drugs.

I don’t want to see these fighters in their old age in bad shape. Then in some tell all book we find out half the fighters they faced used PEDs.
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Anonymous Says:

hi guys! Manny is not actually worried about the “drug testing” result. He was actually worried about blood being drawn to him before the fight, even its a very small millimeter of blood, he believes that its bad luck. For Manny,its a VERY BIG DEAL for him. Its like you are scared of heights, and you are asked to climb a rooftop of a 100 story building before the fight. It affects the person psychologically. Every sports man has his own superstitious belief. Funny but hey, Manny agreed to get his blood drawn after the fight.If they found traces of drugs then Mayweather will win anyway. So whats their problem?
December 24th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Anonymous Says:

Guys, you don’t need to explain those EPO stuff around here, you are just waisting your time! Just explain to us if traces of drugs can still be traced after the fight.

Second, if traces of drugs are found on Manny, Manny will be disqualified right?
Third, So why the hell Mayweather keeps on insisting on random drug test if he knew Manny is taking EPO? He’ll win anyway if Manny is found guilty! Am i right?

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2009/12/promoter_bob_arum_mayweather-p.html
December 24th, 2009 at 12:48 am
Femmo Says:

I want to read all this but I know it will be a waste of time in the end. I want to know all about the drug testing, not. NOthing will matter on March 13, if that IS the day.

I can’t wait for the proper promotion but for now it’s just smoke & mirrors. & bordom.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:16 am
bacuzi Says:

Femmo, I agree with you. But it’s interesting to know that the top guys here in fightfan.com are really into this discussion. :) I’d better sit back and watch this the whole story unfold. this is some drama, thriller and comedy – all at the same time.

I’m still positive that the fight will push through!
December 24th, 2009 at 5:45 am
rey bonat Says:

Mayweather knows that he is not capable of destroying Pacquiao in the ring, the only way he know is to demand and accuse etc.,etc., to evade the showdown with Pacquiao.
December 24th, 2009 at 7:09 am
gakiis47 Says:

In insisting in making this ultra stringent, beyond standard dope testing, Mayweather has only one thing in mind. That is to eliminate one of two distinct advantages of Pacquiao over him, which is power.(the other is speed) Everybody knows Pacquiao is power and speed. I have personally followed his career when he was still starting out as a young teenage professional and witnessed how he uses these to his utmost advantage, destroying opponents one after another. There was no Freddie Roach to refine his technique back then and make him the complete fighter that he is today, but it was clear that power and speed were his bread and butter. Pacquiao will not be himself if strength is taken away from him through these excessive bloodletting a few weeks before the fight. Mayweather doesn’t care if he submits himself to such stringent dope testing simply because he does not rely on power in his fights. Pacquiao does, and that is one advantage Mayweather wants to get rid of.
December 24th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
trekman Says:

to everyone that is saying manny is scared of needles but he has tatoo
both are to different things

when you get a tatoo the dont look for you veins and stick the needle to it? do they

manny is not affaid of needles and giving blood

he is concern why is he the only one being singled out? they have other fighters that fight in vegas
and now he has to do it?
that is not right
this is not the the olympics
and the mayweather are not the governing body of boxing?

so you tell me why is manny being singled out

his last fight with cotto
he took the same test as every boxer in that building, he tested negative
Julio Cezar Chavez Jr took the same test and came positive

why is manny still getting pushed around?
its all mind games that floyd and goldenboy productions.

I know I wont spend my money to watch any mayweather fight. but pacquiao fights I will gladly fork out my hard earn money to watch a real champion!
December 24th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Pugilist Says:

To Anonymous: Not being smug here but please read the thread my friend. It is not long & some of your questions likely have already been answered.

1.) Anonymous you said: “Just explain to us if traces of drugs can still be traced after the fight.”
_____________________________________
You have to look no further than Shane Mosley’s doping calendar & court testimony.

“Mosley injected EPO roughly every other day for 14 days, then went into the “maintenance phase” where he used the drug once a week, beginning on Aug. 15. *** Mosley then began to taper off the drug so that he wouldn’t test positive in the event that he was tested for EPO following the fight.” ***

http://bit.ly/7cUiXX http://bit.ly/4ji2DQ
______________________________________
December 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
gakiis47 Says:

I think Mayweather should retire and this time stay retired forever. He is a clown. Boxing reputation as a sport gets diminished every second he trash talks and ducks opponents.
December 24th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Pugilist Says:

I’m sorry this is not looking good for the Pacquiao camp at all. Everyday it looks more like they have something t hide. Take this from Bob Arum.

“Everything can be picked up by urinalysis,” Arum said. “Everything.” http://bit.ly/7VYNAZ

That statement has now been proven to be patently false. *** PLEASE READ WHATS BELOW CLOSELY ***
________________________________________________

Travis Tygart, the CEO of USADA (U.S. Anti-Doping Agency), told Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports that both urine and blood tests are needed to determine if a fighter is clean.

“There is no urine-based tested for human-growth hormone,” Tygart said. “It doesn’t show up in the urine. It’s only a blood-based test. That’s true of a number of prohibited substances, particularly those that would enhance and aid a boxer.”

Tygert also added the schedule Arum is proposing won’t work, because a fighter would have the advantage of knowing when he’d be tested.

“That kind of window is totally unacceptable,” Tygart said. “It would provide a huge loophole for a cheater to step through and get away with cheating.”

Dr. Gary Wadler, an internal medicine physician and chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency’s Prohibited List and Methods sub-committee, supported Tygar’s position.

“The fundamental principle is that the time and place of testing is in the domain of the governing body, not of the athlete,” Wadler told Yahoo! Sports. “It would lose all its validity if the athlete could pick and choose when he is going to be tested and for what he’s going to be tested for and how he’s going to be tested. They’re sophisticated enough now that if someone wanted to, you could play the calendar to your advantage. There are pretty savvy guys out there who are quite conversant with that very issue. That, to me, would be a non-starter.”

And to Arum’s notion that Pacquaio will feel “weakened” by getting his blood drawn close to the fight? Victor Conte, the founder of Bay-Area Laboratory Cooperative (BALCO), said the tests would have no physical effect on either fighter.

“That amount would be less than one-half of one percent (of the total blood in the body),” Conte told Yahoo! Sports. “It’s not going to have any effect, the drawing of blood. Could it have some mental effect? That’s the only down side of that. It’s certainly not going to have any physical effect, giving blood before a fight.”

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2009/12/blood_vs_urine_usada_clears_up.html
____________________________________________

I REST MY CASE FOLKS.
December 24th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
pacu Says:

this link will tell you the truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfC9dMY1YA8
December 24th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
tuliro Says:

Ace, what’s the difference between tests before the fight and a test after the fight? Since this testing is Mayweather’s demand and Pacquiao agreed to a post fight test, why doe’nt the Mayweather team budge in? I really don’t understand. Is this an outright acknowledgment that Manny is a very formidable foe? I mean, he’s a smalller guy who must eat 5 times a day just to maintain the wight whereas that is PBF’s natural weight. Also, before this issue, all the floydfan here believes that their idol is prettier, better skilled and smarter than the
uglier Pacquiao… this should have been his big chance to prove his caliber…NOW he raised up an issue, insisted on it and would not fight unless the other guy qwould submit to a “new” rule… absurdity.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
2mbok Says:

Hey PACU, are you insinuating that Mayweather and Malignaggi have one thing in common? Ok. now i know why he won’t go for this fight… well I can’t blame him. He is prettier and yeap, doesn’t want his pretty face reconfigured the way Delahoya was when The Pac gave him a beating… o i c.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Pugilist Says:

Oscar De La Hoya is now raising suspiciouns about Pacquiao and he has actually been punched by fighters who used steroids.
http://bit.ly/8DWRGI

“If Pacquiao doesn’t want to do this and risk a possible $40 million payday because he’s afraid of needles or believes he’ll be weakened by blood tests, then that raises question marks,” De La Hoya wrote. “The guy has tattoos everywhere; he’s tattooed from top to bottom. You’re telling me he’s afraid of needles?”

“Now I have to wonder about him,” De La Hoya wrote. “I’m saying to myself, ‘Wow. Those Mosley punches, those Vargas punches and those Pacquiao punches all felt the same.’ I’m not saying yes or no (about whether Pacquiao might be taking performance-enhancing drugs); I’m just saying that now people have to wonder: Why doesn’t he want to do this? Why is it such a big deal. “A lot of eyebrows have been raised. This is not good at all. C’mon. It’s only a little bit of blood. If you have nothing to hide, then do the test.”
December 24th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

To play devil’s advocate: He’s never been tattooed in the last few days before his fights.

He has a phobia of blood being drawn, and feels it effected him when it was done prior to his loss to Morales.

As this is not a rule in boxing, and something no other fighter has ever had to abide by, you can see where his room for protest comes in.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
the expert Says:

to tell you what.. i want no fight win mayweather no more…

pacquiao doesn’t need him.. pacquiao should undergo all the test to prove him negative then put a slander case on mayweather camp that a lot of money to….

i think pacquiao should fight… mosley or any other fighters with title..

not this obviously scared mayweathers they chicken out of reasons…

the ultimatum is today so, better luck for the decision…

like i told you before they are surprised that manny pacquiao signed the contract, they think that it’s too early for pacman(they will use it as an advantage…) but hay pacman signed it so they have to find another excuse to duck the fight,,,

i rest my case also… that’s a chicken out of mayweathers they know it.. everybody knows it his gonna lose to pacquiao.. HIS GONNA LOSE (MAYWEATHER)… PACMAN WILL EAT THE MAYWEATHER..
December 24th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Pugilist Says:

Freddie Roach is already linked to a fighter who has previously tested positive for steroids.

Freddie Roach was training James Toney in 2005 when he tested positive for performance enhancing drugs for his fight against John Ruiz.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Pugilist Says:

Ace the author of this article:
http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2009/12/manny_pacquiao_only_fueling_th.html

Says Manny got a tattoo “just before” his most recent fight, against Miguel Cotto.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

That was not right before the fight.

He recently got a tattoo on his inner forearm in early December.

Mayo has his facts wrong, because his agenda is to support Mayweather.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Ace Freeman Says:

Also, James Toney’s positive test was attributed to a steroid he was legally prescribed to heal an injury to his arm.

How that equates to Pacquiao is beyond me.

You’ve made some good points about testing in general pugulist, but I’m now asking you to cool it in regards to your insinuations about Pacquiao.

Your first post claimed he’s a liar because he cheated on his wife. If that is a measuring stick there isn’t a boxer in the sport who can be trusted.

Manny isn’t on trial and has tested clean for every test he’s taken.

If you’d like to continue to discuss testing procedures and solutions for the present problem that’s fine… but enough with the insinuations.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
mikesman Says:

Let the K9 do the drug test, its more than reliable source who`s on drug. Merry Christmas.
December 24th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Femmo Says:

I can’t see why we are all getting so riled up .
This is just a ploy to defame the hero. As the saying goes if you hear something enought you believe it is true. This shit is just cruel smoke and mirrors.
Ayweathers may not even think Manny is on this crap but that is not the point. The more bullshit articles that ce out the more people will doubt Manny and that is their plan plain and simple
December 24th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Femmo Says:

Mayweathers are pathethic. Moment of truth is coming for mayweather
December 24th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Anonymous Says:

Can anybody take and flush or mask steroids or HGH from one’s system within 30 days?

Manny has agreed to be tested every 30 days, one after the January press con, another 30 days before the fight and lastly right after the fight!

Any genius out there who supports mayweather’s including golden boy’s assertion that the tests done every 30 days is still insufficient?

Can one really benefit from steroids use without a continuous and regular use?

Mosley took steroids every other day for one month and then had about 2 weeks to flush the system out so it won’t show in the tests. . How can you do that with a window of 30 days????

Those who assert that it can benefit one with such a short period of usage is either into hallucinogens or they are simply ignorant of the facts.
December 24th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Anonymous Says:

Can one have beneficial effect from ingesting or taking steroids or HGH then flush it out of your system before a blood test so it will not show?

As I understand it, to get optimum result, the PED’s should be in your system during competition to be of help. If you flushed it out, how can it help you?
December 24th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Anonymous Says:

Seems so personal for pugilist..
UBFG fought some big names but never got so worried & runnin’ scared like this.
Let’s not promote racism.
Think about it folks the clowns are not the governing body of boxing.
Good job Ace, keep it up!
December 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Anonymous Says:

ODLH is just sour graping..
December 25th, 2009 at 10:34 am

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