Comments on: Weekend in Review: Calderon Sturm & Kahn win!

By: Ace Freeman

Ace Freeman — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:31:03 +0000

Ivan that is not correct. The 3rd score was 113-113 from Clements. This is all very clearly noted on the boxrec.com’s notes for the fight:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:737130

“Judge John Stewart called the bout 115-110 for Pacquiao. Guy Jutras had it 115-110 for Marquez. Clements scored the fight 113-113, making it a draw, but Pacquiao would have won had he scored the first round 10-6.”

As I said, it was a close fight and two of the thee judges (barring the error) would have had Pacquiao winning.

There is no consensus that Marquez won the first fight. As I pointed out to you, he was very lucky it was a draw and not a loss for him (he was saved by a technical scoring error). And Marquez was certainly not “robbed” in the 2nd fight that was so closely contested.

It’s fine that you thought Marquez won both fights. Many people feel differently. That’s the beauty (and also a frustrating part) of boxing.

By: Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel

Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:46:07 +0000

Ace I am sorry but I don’t think so because from the link you sent regarding the scoring remember all boxing writers and broadcasters but one had Pacquiao winnning. In the end the Canadian judge Guy Jutras had the fight scored 115-110 for Marquez meaning even if this judge had scored the 1st round 10-6 his final score card would have been 114-110. Also after their rematch war I am pretty sure I heard all broadcasters at ringside say they felt Marquez had won both fights. The rematch fight between these two great warriors I would say was closer than their 1st fight but even with that knockdown that Pacquiao got in round 3 I still gave Marquez the victory. Once again I can’t wait till a 3rd war between these two! I just hope I won’t have to wait another 4 years to see it.

By: Ace Freeman

Ace Freeman — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:34:13 +0000

I agree with you about the rubber match, I hope it happens too. But there were more than one person at ringside who had Pacquiao winning, and as I pointed out, had the third judge scored the 1st round properly, two of the three most important ring side observers would have had the fight scored for Pacquiao.

So when talking about the first fight, it’s very much prudent to point out that an error on one score card is the only thing that officially saved Marquez from not having an “L” on his record for that fight too.

I thought both their fights were very close and could have been scored either way.

I would expect the same from a 3rd fight because they are just both so evenly matched at the end of the day.

Here’s to hoping we get to find out though! =)

By: Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel

Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:53:57 +0000

I know it used to be that a 3 knockdown in a round was scored 10-7 just like Clements said afterwards which is why I myself scored that 1st round 10-7 not 10-6. I was not awared that under the rules, a judge can score such round 10-6 as Marc Ratner the Executive Director of the Nevada Commision stated. In the end of the fight my score cards were similar to the Canadian judge Guy Jutras who scored it 115-110 for Marquez. Also Ace noticed how all the boxing writers and broadcasters at ringside supported Marquez’s contention? Only 1 had Pacman winning, the rest rewarded Marquez for the great effort he made by coming back strong after almost being knocked out in that 1 round. I guess in the end we both have our own opinions, I say Marquez should have won both the 1st and the rematch yet you disagree. All I can say is I will continue to stick by my say and hope Pacquiao agrees to a trilogy fight. I just hope Marquez won’t have to wait 4 years for a rubber match.

By: Ace Freeman

Ace Freeman — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:49:04 +0000

Ivan I respect your opinion but I’ve talked to hordes of professional judges, and that round was 10-6 Pacquiao. 10-7 is an erroneous score. There is no way around it. Even the judge who incorrectly scored the round 10-7 apologized later and admitted it was a mistake. Pacaquiao wins the round and Marquez is deducted THREE additional points for three knock downs. 9-3= 6. It was absolutely the correct way to score that round, and had Burt Clements scored it as such (as he later admitted he should have) that fight goes down at a split decision win for Pacquiao.

It was well documented at the time:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040510/news_1s10fight.html

As for the rest of the fight, it was subjective enough you can’t say “we all know who should have won”. Like the rematch, it was very close, and many people judged it differently.

I agree that I’d like to see a 3rd fight, but lets not forget it was Marquez who TWICE stalled the rematch. He can wait a while for a rubber match. =)

By: Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel

Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:09:49 +0000

Ace Freeman I beg to differ because as far as I am concerned that 1st round despite the 3 knockdowns Marquez suffered was scored right. I say this because it was scored 10-7 for Pacquiao which is fine but Marquez came back strong winning the rest of the fight. I know there was another round in the fight which I gave to Pacman but that was it because Marquez took 10 out of 12 rounds therefore Juan Manuel Marquez should have won. There is no way that 1st round could be scored 10-6, I have never heard of that kind of scoring. 10-7 fine but not 10-6 like some fight fans seem to argue about. Now there must be a trilogy fight because as I said before Pacman has only won the rematch which once again could have been a win for Marquez.

By: Ace Freeman

Ace Freeman — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:42:57 +0000

“Pacman did not win plus it should have been a win for Marquez as we all know.”

Sorry Mr. Ivan, “we” don’t all know that.

Marquez *escaped* the first fight with a draw. If that incompitent judge didn’t make an error on his card, Pacquiao would have won that fight as he should have.

The 2nd fight was close, and while I’d like to see a 3rd fight, I have no problem with Pacquiao moving up in weight and fighting for a title.

Marquez was the one who delayed the 2nd fight almost four years. If he has to wait a while to get a 3rd Pacquiao fight, so be it. He can move up to 135 too.

By: Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel

Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:46:28 +0000

It’s interesting to see how Quintana might not just give Williams an immediate rematch? I wonder what will happen now because if Mosley beats Judah like most of us fight fans expect, Mosley then most likely were to fight Quintana in which I would have to pick Mosley over Quintana simply because of the experience and speed Mosley has. I know Quintana is latino but Mosley is a notch above Quintana at least that’s what I think. Quintana ain’t even at the same level as Mosley or is he? Maybe if that fight were to take place Quintana will surprise us again? Who knows what will happen? Maybe Judah will beat Mosley and then go on to fight Quintana? I am now interested in hearing what will occure in regards to Carlos Quintana’s next fight.

By: Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel

Ivan "LatinoPorVida" Montiel — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:36:32 +0000

I don’t like the fact that Bob Arum wants Pacquiao to fight Diaz in his next fight. It should be Juan Manuel Marquez, I am glad J.M.Marquez apporached Pacman in the philipines because the score between the 2 has not been settled. Pacquiao knows it and should give J.M.Marquez another fight! The 1st fight was a draw therefore Pacman did not win plus it should have been a win for Marquez as we all know. Despite the 3 knockdowns in the 1st round any hardcore boxing fan who knows boxing would have had Marquez winning the rest of the fight which would have given the Mexican the victory. The same goes with the rematch but once again Marquez got robbed, it’s a matter of time before Marquez knocks out Pacquiao and Pacman knows it. Both Marquez/Pacquiao are true warriors no doubt but it can’t end like this, there has to be trilogy fight between the two.